Friday, June 23, 2006
How and Why?
Well I guess the first thing to answer is why the blog and why dedicated to science and philosophy? That in itself is a bit of a story. The thing is I have always thought of the world and my relation to it in such terms. Ever since I was young I was one of those wonder people. That is I would wonder about this and wonder about that. It always seemed strange that here I was, born into this ponderous world preconstructed for me to observe and I didn’t have a clue what it was, how it was and why it was. Well when you think like this you are unavoidably lead to science and philosophy. The pursuit of the “what” questions and the “how” questions are things us mortals try to understand through a method called science. The “why” questions are attempted to be discovered through philosophical analysis and consideration. Many may wonder why science does not try to tackle it all. Well at one time this was truly the case. The term philosopher is Greek for “lover of knowledge“. In fact still today when someone receives a PhD in any of the sciences he is awarded a Doctorate in Philosophy. Of course, many of you know this. This doesn’t provide an answer. Well let’s take a look at a standard dictionary definition of philosophy taken from answer.com it reads:
“Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods“.Still confused? Well the key words here are “empirical methods” Philosophy in the modern definition shuns empirical methods or in other words testing it’s validity by way of predictions against what we see in the world. This was not always the case.
Plato for instance did not exclude physical testing and at the same time warned us about where and when it was appropriate. He concludes in his Allegory of the Cave:
” Whereas our argument shows that the power and capacity of learning exists in the soul already; and that just as the eye was unable to turn from darkness to light without the whole body, so too the instrument of knowledge can only by the movement of the whole soul be turned from the world of becoming into that of being, and learn by degrees to endure the sight of being and of the brightest and best of being, or in other words, of the good.”Plato here reminds us that true understanding incorporates both methodologies not only the empirical method but also by what he refers to as the “good”, which in the context of what I am talking about is the “why”. He implies that to have any success that both must be considered jointly . In the modern world these things have grown to become separated. The next question here is of course is “how and “why”. So that’s what this whole blog will be dealing with, my understandings and questions of the “how” and the “why”.
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Dear Phil,
I must say I am impressed by depth of your blog concerning philosophy and science. I like name of this blog - which is intriguing.
I would like to submit to you my web site
www.scienceofidentity.org and please let me know what you think about it. I think it is similar to yours and can be interesting to you.
Kind regards,
Alex
I must say I am impressed by depth of your blog concerning philosophy and science. I like name of this blog - which is intriguing.
I would like to submit to you my web site
www.scienceofidentity.org and please let me know what you think about it. I think it is similar to yours and can be interesting to you.
Kind regards,
Alex
"What ? " - All of Western Humanity before Socrates, not sure of Lao Tze in China, and me when my wife calls my name.
"How ? " - Socrates
"Why ? " - Plato
Also "Why ? " and "Let's Debate!" - Aristotle
"Hey guys, let's stop talking and take over the world already, sheesh." - Alexander the Great
And there you have it, in 4 generations the quest of at least Western man was defined.
"How ? " - Socrates
"Why ? " - Plato
Also "Why ? " and "Let's Debate!" - Aristotle
"Hey guys, let's stop talking and take over the world already, sheesh." - Alexander the Great
And there you have it, in 4 generations the quest of at least Western man was defined.
Hi Steven,
”And there you have it, in 4 generations the quest of at least Western man was defined.”
An interesting conclusion which is to suggest rather than what Socrates insisted as paramount to human existence being "the unexamined life is not worth living.", that rather it’s the unexploited life that holds no meaning. I would suggest Alexander’s and all those after mistake was to misunderstand the meaning of empathy, as to have one able to stand in another’ shoes confused with having the ability to take them for themselves :-)
Anyway it’s nice to see that unlike others you went to the beginnings of my ramblings as I recommend in order to have any chance to understand why I even bother to have written them. Which is simply for me to note in concurrence with Socrates, that the unexamined life is not worthy of a blog :-)
Best,
Phil
”And there you have it, in 4 generations the quest of at least Western man was defined.”
An interesting conclusion which is to suggest rather than what Socrates insisted as paramount to human existence being "the unexamined life is not worth living.", that rather it’s the unexploited life that holds no meaning. I would suggest Alexander’s and all those after mistake was to misunderstand the meaning of empathy, as to have one able to stand in another’ shoes confused with having the ability to take them for themselves :-)
Anyway it’s nice to see that unlike others you went to the beginnings of my ramblings as I recommend in order to have any chance to understand why I even bother to have written them. Which is simply for me to note in concurrence with Socrates, that the unexamined life is not worthy of a blog :-)
Best,
Phil
Heya, Phil. Yes, I'm old fashioned I suppose as I DO believe in starting at the beginning. That doesn't mean I don't skip forward to the end of the book if I think the fundamentals are boring. ;-)
Yes well, I met you at Bee's blog and believe I'm the better man for it. I tended to eschew Philosophy as being too far from my current interest, which is to master the Math of Mathematical Physics. You however based on your writin there taught me that Philosophy must also be considered concurrently with my study, and I thank you for that.
My biggest beef is all the BAD philosophy out there, you know, the New Age stuff. The noise and static in the intellectual environment is considerable. Thanks for beginning with the fundamentals, "the right stuff" if you will.
As far as your comment on empathy, I like and agree with that. My Grandfather passed on to me that old North American Indian expression: "Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins." Good advice that has always stayed with me and served me well.
"The unexploited life that holds no meaning is not worth living." Is that what I said? I guess maybe, reckon so. Interesting interpretation of my subconscious. Thanks! :-) But Socrates is also right.
Yes, well, I guess I got that from my Dad. He was born with great Creativity and Artistic Skill. He felt if you're given a gift like that, to NOT use it would be a sin. That has stuck with me as well.
And I guess I failed up until about a year ago (Sept '08).
The reason for my failure was I am a mathematical prodigy, but gave up on Math at age 22 for .... money, i.e., the money that one earns (and I did earn) with a bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering. I did fine, but true Happiness was elusive. It took long enough, but I've come around. I just hope it's not too late. :-)
Yes well, I met you at Bee's blog and believe I'm the better man for it. I tended to eschew Philosophy as being too far from my current interest, which is to master the Math of Mathematical Physics. You however based on your writin there taught me that Philosophy must also be considered concurrently with my study, and I thank you for that.
My biggest beef is all the BAD philosophy out there, you know, the New Age stuff. The noise and static in the intellectual environment is considerable. Thanks for beginning with the fundamentals, "the right stuff" if you will.
As far as your comment on empathy, I like and agree with that. My Grandfather passed on to me that old North American Indian expression: "Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins." Good advice that has always stayed with me and served me well.
"The unexploited life that holds no meaning is not worth living." Is that what I said? I guess maybe, reckon so. Interesting interpretation of my subconscious. Thanks! :-) But Socrates is also right.
Yes, well, I guess I got that from my Dad. He was born with great Creativity and Artistic Skill. He felt if you're given a gift like that, to NOT use it would be a sin. That has stuck with me as well.
And I guess I failed up until about a year ago (Sept '08).
The reason for my failure was I am a mathematical prodigy, but gave up on Math at age 22 for .... money, i.e., the money that one earns (and I did earn) with a bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering. I did fine, but true Happiness was elusive. It took long enough, but I've come around. I just hope it's not too late. :-)
Hi Steven,
Well it’s nice to discover that my ramblings find some resonance behold myself. As you may have noticed I’m not a prolific blogger, rather I just find it a unique way to post my thoughts, while kept mindful it comes with the responsibility and risk that others might read them. The comment you made about being a math prodigy is an interesting one, in as you admitting in it having things come perhaps too easy stood to be a disadvantage more than a blessing. I find a connection with that although to relate it to it as being strictly an affinity for math wouldn’t quite hit it right.
I wouldn’t like to boast I’m able to stand in your shoes, yet when it comes to what you relate I would say similarly I found myself torn early in life between two passions, one being my love for discovering the meaning of the world and the other for enjoying the world and with all it provides. I wouldn’t say I ever completely lost one for the other, yet with the first found few with which I could relate to in such respect and rather gravitated more naturally to second, as I found many more which simply have a passion for living in the context of what the world brings.
The nice thing about the media we are now speaking through, is it has one able to access the world more broadly then the one that presented itself when I was younger and early on I realized it provided an opportunity to reach further into it where I could and would find more like myself who have a similar and yet rarer passion in their lives when it comes to the world. This passion is not one where you celebrate it in the moment for only what it has, yet rather one that drives you to discovering how and at times glimpses as to why it exists so wonderfully as to be able to.
These days what I feel so bad about is having at long last realized that the largest part of our fellow creatures seem only able to appreciate the world for what it has, while never having had instilled in them a curiosity for why it’s so able and more importantly so enriching to care. So Steven, I wouldn’t say you have once again found your true path; rather you simply looked again to discover you have always been travelling it and once more find it wonderful to care as to wonder why. So my wish for the world is that one day it might come to be one were all have both passions in life, that being the one most have for its living and the other in caring how and why that we can.
Best,
Phil
Well it’s nice to discover that my ramblings find some resonance behold myself. As you may have noticed I’m not a prolific blogger, rather I just find it a unique way to post my thoughts, while kept mindful it comes with the responsibility and risk that others might read them. The comment you made about being a math prodigy is an interesting one, in as you admitting in it having things come perhaps too easy stood to be a disadvantage more than a blessing. I find a connection with that although to relate it to it as being strictly an affinity for math wouldn’t quite hit it right.
I wouldn’t like to boast I’m able to stand in your shoes, yet when it comes to what you relate I would say similarly I found myself torn early in life between two passions, one being my love for discovering the meaning of the world and the other for enjoying the world and with all it provides. I wouldn’t say I ever completely lost one for the other, yet with the first found few with which I could relate to in such respect and rather gravitated more naturally to second, as I found many more which simply have a passion for living in the context of what the world brings.
The nice thing about the media we are now speaking through, is it has one able to access the world more broadly then the one that presented itself when I was younger and early on I realized it provided an opportunity to reach further into it where I could and would find more like myself who have a similar and yet rarer passion in their lives when it comes to the world. This passion is not one where you celebrate it in the moment for only what it has, yet rather one that drives you to discovering how and at times glimpses as to why it exists so wonderfully as to be able to.
These days what I feel so bad about is having at long last realized that the largest part of our fellow creatures seem only able to appreciate the world for what it has, while never having had instilled in them a curiosity for why it’s so able and more importantly so enriching to care. So Steven, I wouldn’t say you have once again found your true path; rather you simply looked again to discover you have always been travelling it and once more find it wonderful to care as to wonder why. So my wish for the world is that one day it might come to be one were all have both passions in life, that being the one most have for its living and the other in caring how and why that we can.
Best,
Phil
"The comment you made about being a math prodigy is an interesting one, in as you admitting in it having things come perhaps too easy stood to be a disadvantage more than a blessing. I find a connection with that although to relate it to it as being strictly an affinity for math wouldn’t quite hit it right."
I am a math prodigy, but not nearly as much as say: Edward Witten, who may very well be the single most intelligent person of all time, with all due respect to Gauss. It's sad though that Witten gave up Particle Physics for String Fantasy. But no matter, he seems to be coming back. We'll see how that works out.
I AM intelligent, but so are many people including you Phil. And in any event, it's relative. I feel "normal" for me. So does everyone else, regardless of IQ. Check out by blog Phil about Frank Wilczek. He graduated high school at age 15. I could have done that, but my mother prevented it. She thought it would hurt my social development.
After high school, Mom told me that long previously she was called to a meeting by the local Board of Education that practically insisted I skip 2nd grade and move into 3rd, directly, from 1st. She refused for the reason stated. I was already the youngest person in my class. I guess she made the right decision, but I struggled socially nevertheless. My love of knowledge consumed me then and was NOT shared by my classmates. Consumes me still.
"I wouldn’t like to boast I’m able to stand in your shoes, ..."
Boast away, you have the right. You were born with a high IQ, obviously. Luck of the draw. Feel no shame, and the alternative off course is far worse.
" ... yet when it comes to what you relate I would say similarly I found myself torn early in life between two passions, one being my love for discovering the meaning of the world and the other for enjoying the world and with all it provides."
I think it's a generational thing in our case, and completely understandable thereby given the North American culture of our lives.
What year were you born in, Phil? I was Oct. 1956.
What that means is my parents' generation suffered the Great Depression and World War II. They KNEW hardship.
Not my generation. We had everything, we were spoiled, we were given the keys to the kingdom.
Look what we did to it.
I am a math prodigy, but not nearly as much as say: Edward Witten, who may very well be the single most intelligent person of all time, with all due respect to Gauss. It's sad though that Witten gave up Particle Physics for String Fantasy. But no matter, he seems to be coming back. We'll see how that works out.
I AM intelligent, but so are many people including you Phil. And in any event, it's relative. I feel "normal" for me. So does everyone else, regardless of IQ. Check out by blog Phil about Frank Wilczek. He graduated high school at age 15. I could have done that, but my mother prevented it. She thought it would hurt my social development.
After high school, Mom told me that long previously she was called to a meeting by the local Board of Education that practically insisted I skip 2nd grade and move into 3rd, directly, from 1st. She refused for the reason stated. I was already the youngest person in my class. I guess she made the right decision, but I struggled socially nevertheless. My love of knowledge consumed me then and was NOT shared by my classmates. Consumes me still.
"I wouldn’t like to boast I’m able to stand in your shoes, ..."
Boast away, you have the right. You were born with a high IQ, obviously. Luck of the draw. Feel no shame, and the alternative off course is far worse.
" ... yet when it comes to what you relate I would say similarly I found myself torn early in life between two passions, one being my love for discovering the meaning of the world and the other for enjoying the world and with all it provides."
I think it's a generational thing in our case, and completely understandable thereby given the North American culture of our lives.
What year were you born in, Phil? I was Oct. 1956.
What that means is my parents' generation suffered the Great Depression and World War II. They KNEW hardship.
Not my generation. We had everything, we were spoiled, we were given the keys to the kingdom.
Look what we did to it.
Hi Steven,
Well indeed we’ve had many parallel experiences in life, including our schools encouraging us to skip grades, with that occurring for me in the fourth as them wantinh to move me up a year. In this case however it was my decision as my parents asked me to decide and I also passed on it. This was prompted after a battery of tests which was the thing in those days and I suspect it might have been the same for you.
So yes I will admit my score on such test would be a little down and to the right on a bell curve, yet truly that’s not what I’m talking about. That is while perhaps those things at most only serve as a non scalable prerequisite, as being yet one ingredient in the mix. That is I know and have meet many bright people, yet if I was to engage most of them with things like we discuss on Bee’s blog and not just strictly the science related things, yet the societal, socioeconomic, or philosophical ones, they would either look at me as if I were from Mars or a few simply admitting such things don’t interest them. The truth is even for most who graduate from university the vast majority never pick up a book again, other than say some hot new fiction novel, celebrity biography or self help book. No what I’m talking about is the true academic soul that is such a rare thing to find and is why places like backreaction at least has me able to touch base with a few now and again.
So Steven this is what I’m talking about that I wished was more common in the world and wonder so often why it is not. What I’m referring to can’t be tested for or measured, yet does demonstrate itself, yet not so strongly in what one knows or how fast they can think, yet rather how curious they are; in not what can be discovered easily but rather for what is hard.
The thing is this is not a new observation, for Plato had the same thoughts long ago ( one of which I’ve quoted in this blog post) and yet from what I’ve discovered it’s not a path as he imagined as being something one could be lead to, yet rather it has been one’s all along. The greatest mystery for me is wondering what is it in people that have them drawn to such a path and why do so many look away or simple fail to ever realize it exists. So I think Plato recognized the journey one takes on the path and what one must do to travel it, yet still failed to have understood , with the same being for me , what brings them to it as to wish to begin the journey being one never able to complete.
Best,
Phil
P,S. Oh yes as you were curious I’m only four years your senior, so once again it appears we have more things in common then those which separate us.
Well indeed we’ve had many parallel experiences in life, including our schools encouraging us to skip grades, with that occurring for me in the fourth as them wantinh to move me up a year. In this case however it was my decision as my parents asked me to decide and I also passed on it. This was prompted after a battery of tests which was the thing in those days and I suspect it might have been the same for you.
So yes I will admit my score on such test would be a little down and to the right on a bell curve, yet truly that’s not what I’m talking about. That is while perhaps those things at most only serve as a non scalable prerequisite, as being yet one ingredient in the mix. That is I know and have meet many bright people, yet if I was to engage most of them with things like we discuss on Bee’s blog and not just strictly the science related things, yet the societal, socioeconomic, or philosophical ones, they would either look at me as if I were from Mars or a few simply admitting such things don’t interest them. The truth is even for most who graduate from university the vast majority never pick up a book again, other than say some hot new fiction novel, celebrity biography or self help book. No what I’m talking about is the true academic soul that is such a rare thing to find and is why places like backreaction at least has me able to touch base with a few now and again.
So Steven this is what I’m talking about that I wished was more common in the world and wonder so often why it is not. What I’m referring to can’t be tested for or measured, yet does demonstrate itself, yet not so strongly in what one knows or how fast they can think, yet rather how curious they are; in not what can be discovered easily but rather for what is hard.
The thing is this is not a new observation, for Plato had the same thoughts long ago ( one of which I’ve quoted in this blog post) and yet from what I’ve discovered it’s not a path as he imagined as being something one could be lead to, yet rather it has been one’s all along. The greatest mystery for me is wondering what is it in people that have them drawn to such a path and why do so many look away or simple fail to ever realize it exists. So I think Plato recognized the journey one takes on the path and what one must do to travel it, yet still failed to have understood , with the same being for me , what brings them to it as to wish to begin the journey being one never able to complete.
Best,
Phil
P,S. Oh yes as you were curious I’m only four years your senior, so once again it appears we have more things in common then those which separate us.
I think that was bold of you to skip a grade, but how did that work out socially? Did you graduate in 1969 rather that 1970? That was some year, '69, remember? Good thing you're Canadian or the Vietnam War draft may have gotten you.
Phil wrote: So Steven, I wouldn’t say you have once again found your true path; rather you simply looked again to discover you have always been traveling it and once more find it wonderful to care as to wonder why.
That was a nice way to put it, thanks Phil.
Mostly what happened was my mother died in July 2008. What happens when one loses a parent is you reflect quite a bit on what that person meant to you. What Mom meant to me was learning and knowledge, which she strongly encouraged throughout my youth. In entering the world of Business (and quite successfully), I got away from that. Her passing simply began a line of inquiry in my own mind of that which I excelled at and which also pleased her the most in my youth.
In September of 2008 it dawned on me that Mathematics was that thing, and so I soldier on now in my once-love, re-invigorated, to do honor both to her memory, and to maximize my chance of future success in that field I am most naturally attracted to and in which I also most naturally excel.
Or maybe I'm just going through a mid-life crisis. :-)
Phil wrote: So Steven, I wouldn’t say you have once again found your true path; rather you simply looked again to discover you have always been traveling it and once more find it wonderful to care as to wonder why.
That was a nice way to put it, thanks Phil.
Mostly what happened was my mother died in July 2008. What happens when one loses a parent is you reflect quite a bit on what that person meant to you. What Mom meant to me was learning and knowledge, which she strongly encouraged throughout my youth. In entering the world of Business (and quite successfully), I got away from that. Her passing simply began a line of inquiry in my own mind of that which I excelled at and which also pleased her the most in my youth.
In September of 2008 it dawned on me that Mathematics was that thing, and so I soldier on now in my once-love, re-invigorated, to do honor both to her memory, and to maximize my chance of future success in that field I am most naturally attracted to and in which I also most naturally excel.
Or maybe I'm just going through a mid-life crisis. :-)
Hi Steven,
I think I must have left you confused for I never did skip a grade, since I decided that wouldn’t be good. The fact is in grade school I was hung with the nick name “The Professor” which despite my best efforts stuck with me until my parents moved to where we now live from another part of the country where I attended high school which at the time here included a thirteenth grade for those that were university streamed and as such I didn’t graduate as early as you suspect. I don’t actually like to discuss specific details of my life over a blog so if you wish to contact me directly my email is pwarnell[at]gmail.com
Best,
Phil
I think I must have left you confused for I never did skip a grade, since I decided that wouldn’t be good. The fact is in grade school I was hung with the nick name “The Professor” which despite my best efforts stuck with me until my parents moved to where we now live from another part of the country where I attended high school which at the time here included a thirteenth grade for those that were university streamed and as such I didn’t graduate as early as you suspect. I don’t actually like to discuss specific details of my life over a blog so if you wish to contact me directly my email is pwarnell[at]gmail.com
Best,
Phil
Oops, my bad on the skipping grades thing, sorry mate.
I can relate to "The Professor" thing. Me too. When I got my very first report card in the 4th grade, straight A's, I showed it to my buddy, and he said something derogatory in the same fashion, which shocked me. Mom taught me knowledge is good, so why is this guy dissing me?! I ran home that day and cried like a little girl when my head hit the pillow when I jumped on my bed in my room. I don't think I cried harder before or since.
In any event, you and I are too old to have been labeled a "nerd" or "dork," as those words weren't in vogue in our time. There were no Robotics clubs, only Chess Clubs. :-) I was called a "braniac" and "poindexter" though. Ah, how words change.
In any event, I once thought there should be a big banner hung in every high-school football team's locker room that reads:
"BE NICE TO THE NERDS, YOU'LL PROBABLY END UP WORKING FOR THEM SOME DAY!"
(Hockey players for you Phil since you're Canadian :-) )
But of course that would be unnecessary, as we were doing their homework for them, and in exchange they gave us bad advice on how to pick up girls. ;-P
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I can relate to "The Professor" thing. Me too. When I got my very first report card in the 4th grade, straight A's, I showed it to my buddy, and he said something derogatory in the same fashion, which shocked me. Mom taught me knowledge is good, so why is this guy dissing me?! I ran home that day and cried like a little girl when my head hit the pillow when I jumped on my bed in my room. I don't think I cried harder before or since.
In any event, you and I are too old to have been labeled a "nerd" or "dork," as those words weren't in vogue in our time. There were no Robotics clubs, only Chess Clubs. :-) I was called a "braniac" and "poindexter" though. Ah, how words change.
In any event, I once thought there should be a big banner hung in every high-school football team's locker room that reads:
"BE NICE TO THE NERDS, YOU'LL PROBABLY END UP WORKING FOR THEM SOME DAY!"
(Hockey players for you Phil since you're Canadian :-) )
But of course that would be unnecessary, as we were doing their homework for them, and in exchange they gave us bad advice on how to pick up girls. ;-P
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